Can HP really be this stupid?

"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury)
01/11/2015 at 10:24 • Filed to: None

I've spent the last several days trying to resuscitate an older DV8000 notebook running XP that I'm borrowing for a project. There are two operating systems on the computer, neither of which would boot, usually resulting in a BSOD and reboot. Since it is an older machine, it was no great surprise that the CMOS battery was dead, so I replaced it.

Assuming it was a corrupt OS, I tried to reinstall, but the same problem occurred. Turning the drive into an external got me a little further, but it still BSOD'd when I put the drive back into the computer. A little more research showed that if you left the SATA setting in the BIOS at the default setting (as happens when the CMOS battery dies), XP can't see the drive. What? The default CMOS settings don't work with the OS that shipped with the computer? Default CMOS settings are supposed to be what makes the computer function, even at a basic level, rather that being the source of the problem! Who is the fucking moron that thought shipping the computer with this as a default was a good idea?

People wonder why I avoid HP and think they make junk. Yes, lots of folks have had good luck with their HP machines, never any trouble, etc., but then they probably haven't had to chase down this kind of stupid problem that is easily fixed with a simple setting change. It is this lack of attention to detail that drives me absolutely buggy, and is symptomatic of someone just going through the motions and not thinking of consequences.

DISCUSSION (14)

Nibby > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 10:27

That's not HP's fault. Here's your issue - CMOS batteries have a finite lifespan and putting a new one in resets all BIOS settings. Go into BIOS and set the SATA controller to IDE instead of AHCI.

Nibbles > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 10:31

1: the CMOS/BIOS are not HP's product

2: That's not just an HP thing, XP itself had tons of issues with SATA back in the day. Don't even get me started on Dell's OptiPlex GX240.

3: Default settings are never optimal

(disclaimer: I previously worked in HP's R&D labs)

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Nibby
01/11/2015 at 10:38

I have to disagree. When the BIOS settings are reset in this machine, it changes them to settings that are incompatible with the OS that the computer shipped with. Default settings should be what are necessary to make the computer run, not to be the source of the problem . It's common procedure to go down to the basics to try to make things work, but in this case the basics made things worse. It doesn't help that they renamed the SATA/IDE setting to something less techy-sounding, presumably to not confuse the average user.

Conan > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 10:38

If the question is whether HP is stupid the answer is YES! but this isn't their fault.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Conan
01/11/2015 at 10:40

I would think that they would be able to have the BIOS set to default however they want, and not just accept OTS settings. The BIOS in this computer is extremely simplified, and I doubt that it came this way without HP's involvement.

this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 10:42

This would be why I run a Mac with OS X as a daily driver and a Linux partition for coding, etc.

Long live Unix!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Nibbles
01/11/2015 at 10:46

3: Default settings are never optimal

Understood, but I was looking for functional, and defaults should be able to make the machine work. It's not like this is the usual random assortment of parts thrown together that I call my desktop machine. This is a factory-built notebook, where all of the hardware is as shipped by the manufacturer and should work together with a minimum of fuss.

Conan > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 10:46

I think part of the problem is that they don't execute that level of planning.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata
01/11/2015 at 10:54

My day-to-day machine is a Mac, and I do spend my fair share of time at the command line as well. It's getting a little old (late 2009 vintage) but I find it more pleasant to use than my monster gaming rig even if it does take a little longer to get things done. I guess I've just become accustomed to Apple sweating the details and get pissed when I see manufacturers put out products that can be described as being just good enough to get the job done.

Nibbles > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 13:26

when the CMOS battery dies, it defaults to manufacturer default (likely Phoenix) not brand default.

bubblestheturtle > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/11/2015 at 19:42

Computers became a commodity over a decade ago. One of the results is that every little thing is price sensitive. In this case the BIOS, and its default settings are not made for a particular model. Setting each BIOS to a model would cost cash. I would be shocked if this was any different for other manufacturers.

orcim > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/12/2015 at 01:01

Wait just a second: You don't like manufacturers putting out products just good enough to get the job done?

[One viewpoint]: "What's your problem? You don't like capitalism? Supply and demand economics? Are you hoarding canned goods for the revolution?"

[Another viewpoint]: "Yeah, the race for the bottom in current economic schemes screws us all. Nevermind that people who know how to use things get shafted, the 80/20 rule rules economically, and we really don't have anything to say in the matter. Unless we can yelp/comment/change the market, in which case, we get sued."

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > orcim
01/12/2015 at 11:34

For some, good enough is acceptable, but not for me. No Camry, no faux Tuscan tract house in the 'burbs, no Wal-Mart, no HP notebooks. The great thing about capitalism is that I actually have a say in how and where my money is spent, and if enough of us vote with our wallets companies will either have to adapt or die. It may be unpopular, but I will always support quality over quantity, even if I am not, technically speaking, getting the most bang for my buck on a strictly numeric evaluation. I find it fantastic that there is room for all types of consumers, and although my beliefs may put me in the minority, I am not forced out because of that.

orcim > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
01/13/2015 at 01:25

I've had Mac's in the house since 1985. So I understand what you're saying, there.

I've lived long enough to see my economic choices be deleted from the market because they were unpopular and not "cost effective." It didn't matter that I and maybe a small number of consumers wanted that, it was simply discontinued. That makes it hard for me to believe the "market driven" arguments I get from some folk, since I've seen it fail for me personally. (Obviously, not for the company.. but that's what I was tongue in cheek intimating - the "market" isn't for us, it's for the production side.)

Luckily, I enjoy the Mac and so do others. Me? I'm an old UNIX hack, so Apple is a natural choice. But they also appeal to people beyond that demographic, and I'm thankful for it.